هل يكون حديثك مع تقادم السنوات نوعاً من أنواع الاجترار؟
لنعد قليلاً فيما كتبت عن الشفوي، والمكتوب، نعم، سبق أن ألقيت الكثير من المحاضرات حول العديد من القضايا الأدبية، وربما كانت معظمها شهادات عن تجربتي الروائية، ومع تقدّم وسائل ثورة المعلومات بقيت متمركزاً في أن المعلومة وفيرة، بينما معرفة كيف تم الوصول إلى تلك المعلومة ظل قاصراً لدى الباحث عن المعلومة (بضغطة زر)، وهناك فرق بين المعلومة والمعرفة، لندع هذه النقطة، وأعرّج عن تفلت الكنوز الشفوية كحديث، نعم لا يزال الكثيرون يسعون لتوثيق الشفوي الذي مرّ بنا، إلا أن هناك نقطة في منتهى الدقة، تتفلت منا، وهي حرارة السارد الشعبي، وتلوّن صوته، واختفاء حركته، وصمته، ومواصلته للحديث، أمور كثيرة تلازم الحكاء الشعبي.. نعم أنا ابن الحكاية الشعبية، فأول المدارس التي التحقت بها هي الجلوس أمام (حكاءة) والإصغاء الجيد لكل ما تقوله.. وربما كانت هذه البداية الأولى لمعرفة أثر الحكاية على الحضور.. ومنذ ذلك الزمن وأنا أحاول الإمساك بسر الحكاية.. سر أن تتحدث والجميع يصغي.
هل للحكاية جن أو ملائكة حتى يغدو السامع قطعة من متعة تسيل اشتهاءً وعسلاً بتدفق الحكاية؟
في طفولتي تلك كنت لا أريد سوى تتبع الأحداث وكأنها القناة (الفنية) التي تجرى بها الحياة.
وعندما (فتحت الخط) بدأت أتتلمذ على الحكاية المكتوبة، وظللت سادراً في متعة المكتوب، إلا أن عالمي الشفوي، والمكتوب بينهما مساحات كبيرة يسكنها الفراغ.
فالانتقال من الشفوي إلى المكتوب أحدث فوارق مهولة وأثراً على الحكاية في معطياتها الدلالية، وحركيتها المتسارعة.
فالحكاية الشعبية لها تقنيات مختلفة عن المكتوب.. فالسرد الشعبي حر، طليق بينما المكتوب كائن سجين، وعلى المتلقي أن يكون عالِماً بالاختلافات الجوهرية في سرد الحدث بين الصياغتين.
فالشفوي جاذب للسمع، والمقروء جاذب للبصر وبين السرعتين تختلف المتعة.
في فترة سابقة نشطت الأندية الأدبية في الاحتفاء بالقصة وأقيمت الأمسيات المتعددة وفي كل أمسية قصصية تظهر الفروقات بين المسموع والمكتوب.
وإن كانت تلك الأمسيات ملتزمة بالمكتوب، والمتدرب على سماع الحكايات الشفوية يضيق ذرعاً بما يقال، لأن السارد مثل من يحمل بطيختين بيد واحدة، هو يريد إسماعك قصته إلا أنه متورط في المكتوب، والنجاح مرتهن بالمقدرة التمثيلية للقاص بحيث يستعير جزءاً من أدوات السارد الشفوي.
وأهم مميزات السرد الشفوي:
- الإعادة المستمرة للزمات تكون فاصلة الانتقال من حدث لآخر.
- إدماج الحكاء كل الحواس أثناء السرد من يد، وعين، وحركة جسد، وتلوين صوت، وتمثيل حالة الحدث تهويلاً أو خضوعاً.
- مشاركة المستمع في الحكي استدراكاً أو مضيفاً، أو مستفسراً.
متعة الحكي تختلف باختلاف الزمان والمكان أثناء قراءة الحكاية المكتوبة، بينما الحكاية الشعبية اتخذت من الليل سكنى لها، عادة لا يقتعد لسماع الحكاية إلا ليلاً.
- نفسية الحكاء الشعبي تؤثر في السرد إيجاباً أو سلباً، وكذلك نفسية المستمعين، فأي منهما يجري الكدر في داخله، تتباطأ حالة السرد كمؤشر لضيق نفسية أي منهما.
- وفي الحكاية الشعبية يتم إضافة أحداث، أو إلغاء أحداث.
- كل سارد لحكاية شعبية يضيف ويحذف.. قد تكون هذه أهم سمات الحكاية الشعبية، بينما القصة المكتوبة تحفل بجوانب أخرى.
- بعد الانتهاء من كتابة الحكاية تمنع عنها الحذف أو الإضافة، إذ تكون في حالة اكتمال.
- كلما كان أسلوب الكتابة متقدماً صعب على القارئ التواصل الحقيقي مع الحدث.
- القصة المكتوبة لا يعود لدى السامع فرصة التغير والتبديل، بل يمنحها بعداً من مخيلته.
- القصة المكتوبة تحاول التوسط بين المكتوب والشفوي عند سردها من قبل القارئ، وهنا يحدث انتصار للشفوي مقابل المكتوب... ونجد أن الذات تتنهزه بين العالمين كما يحلو لها من غير الاحتزام بالفوارق بين العمليتين.
إن صياغة الأحداث المكتوبة والشفوية بحاجة إلى مصفاة لتكرير ما تساقط هنا أو هناك، فالحكاية في الحالتين سقط منها شيء لا يستعيده الزمن حتى لو كان (للقارئ أو المستمع) مخيلة فذة، فما تنتجه المخيلة يكون فائضاً ليس من أصل الحكاية.
-هل أستطيع القول إننا حكايات ناقصة؟
لهذا، أشعر فعلاً بنقص الحكاية المكتوبة عمّا يصاحب الحكاية الشفوية من لوازم ماتعة، التي اعتبرها من أصل الحكاية وليست طارئة عنها أو عليها.
الآن هل -ومع المناداة لموت الشاعر.. النقد.. الراديو.. التلفاز- انتشرت مفردة الموت حتى تظن أن المنادين بها هم ( قبرجية)، ويصبح القول بموت الراوي الشعبي ( قفلة ضومنة).
الآن، ظهر الذكاء الاصطناعي وكانّه الغول الذي جاء ليبز ما سبقه من تعبيرات أو أدوات، ولأني لا أؤمّن بالموت بمعنى التلاشي، لأن كل موت تلحق به حياة مغيرة لما سبقها من حيوات، فالذكاء الاصطناعي سيقسم نفسه بنفسه لتكون هناك حالة توالد، ومن أساليب تلقي الأوامر هناك أوامر صوتيه، والصوت حالة شفوية، فالصوت لا يموت حتى وإن خفت فطاقته مستمرة في التذبذب.. إذاً لِنُعِدْ الدائرة بين الشفوي والمكتوب.
تابع قناة عكاظ على الواتساب
Is your conversation, as the years go by, a form of regurgitation?
Let’s reflect a bit on what I wrote about the oral and the written. Yes, I have previously delivered many lectures on various literary issues, and perhaps most of them were testimonies about my novelistic experience. With the advancement of information revolution tools, I remained focused on the fact that information is abundant, while the knowledge of how that information was reached remained limited for the seeker of information (with the click of a button). There is a difference between information and knowledge; let’s set this point aside and touch on the elusiveness of oral treasures as a discourse. Yes, many still strive to document the oral narratives that have passed through us, but there is a point of utmost precision that eludes us: the warmth of the folk narrator, the color of their voice, the disappearance of their movement, their silence, and their continuation of the talk—many things accompany the folk storyteller. Yes, I am a child of the folk tale; the first schools I attended were sitting in front of a (storyteller) and listening attentively to everything they said. Perhaps this was the first beginning of understanding the impact of the tale on the audience. Since that time, I have been trying to grasp the secret of storytelling—the secret of speaking while everyone listens.
Does the tale have jinn or angels so that the listener becomes a piece of pleasure flowing with desire and honey with the flow of the story?
In my childhood, I wanted nothing but to follow events as if they were the (artistic) channel through which life flows.
When I (opened the line), I began to learn from the written tale, and I remained immersed in the pleasure of the written, but my oral world and the written one have vast spaces inhabited by emptiness.
The transition from the oral to the written created enormous differences and an impact on the tale in its semantic data and rapid dynamics.
The folk tale has different techniques from the written one. The oral narrative is free and unrestrained, while the written one is a captive being, and the recipient must be aware of the fundamental differences in narrating the event between the two forms.
The oral is attractive to the ear, while the written is attractive to the eye, and the pleasure differs between the two speeds.
In a previous period, literary clubs were active in celebrating the story, and multiple evenings were held, and in every storytelling evening, the differences between the heard and the written appear.
And if those evenings were committed to the written form, the trainee in listening to oral tales becomes frustrated with what is said, because the storyteller is like someone carrying two watermelons in one hand; they want to make you hear their story, but they are entangled in the written form, and success is contingent on the representational ability of the storyteller so that they borrow part of the tools of the oral storyteller.
The most important features of oral narration:
- The continuous repetition of phrases serves as a transition point from one event to another.
- The storyteller integrates all senses during the narration: hand, eye, body movement, voice modulation, and representing the state of the event with exaggeration or submission.
- The listener participates in the storytelling by interjecting, adding, or inquiring.
The pleasure of storytelling differs with time and place during the reading of the written tale, while the folk tale has taken the night as its dwelling; usually, one does not sit to hear the tale except at night.
- The psychology of the folk storyteller affects the narration positively or negatively, as does the psychology of the listeners. Whichever of them harbors distress within, the state of narration slows down as an indicator of the psychological strain of either.
- In the folk tale, events are added or omitted.
- Every storyteller of a folk tale adds and subtracts; this may be one of the most important characteristics of the folk tale, while the written story is rich in other aspects.
- Once the tale is finished being written, it is prevented from deletion or addition, as it is in a state of completion.
- The more advanced the writing style, the harder it is for the reader to have a genuine connection with the event.
- The written story does not give the listener a chance for change and alteration; rather, it grants it a dimension from their imagination.
- The written story tries to mediate between the written and the oral when narrated by the reader, and here a victory for the oral occurs against the written... and we find that the self navigates between the two worlds as it pleases without being bound by the differences between the two processes.
The formulation of written and oral events needs a filter to refine what has fallen here or there, for in both cases, something from the tale has fallen that time cannot restore, even if the (reader or listener) has a vivid imagination, for what the imagination produces is surplus, not from the essence of the tale.
- Can I say that we are incomplete tales?
Therefore, I truly feel the deficiency of the written tale compared to the delightful necessities that accompany the oral tale, which I consider to be part of the tale and not incidental to it or upon it.
Now, with the calls for the death of the poet... criticism... radio... television—has the term death spread to the extent that one might think that those calling for it are (grave diggers), and the saying of the death of the folk narrator becomes (a closing statement).
Now, artificial intelligence has emerged as if it were the monster that came to surpass what preceded it in expressions or tools, and because I do not believe in death in the sense of obliteration, for every death is followed by a life that alters what preceded it, artificial intelligence will divide itself to create a state of reproduction. Among the methods of receiving commands, there are voice commands, and voice is an oral state; sound does not die even if it fades, for its energy continues to oscillate... So let’s reconnect the circle between the oral and the written.
Let’s reflect a bit on what I wrote about the oral and the written. Yes, I have previously delivered many lectures on various literary issues, and perhaps most of them were testimonies about my novelistic experience. With the advancement of information revolution tools, I remained focused on the fact that information is abundant, while the knowledge of how that information was reached remained limited for the seeker of information (with the click of a button). There is a difference between information and knowledge; let’s set this point aside and touch on the elusiveness of oral treasures as a discourse. Yes, many still strive to document the oral narratives that have passed through us, but there is a point of utmost precision that eludes us: the warmth of the folk narrator, the color of their voice, the disappearance of their movement, their silence, and their continuation of the talk—many things accompany the folk storyteller. Yes, I am a child of the folk tale; the first schools I attended were sitting in front of a (storyteller) and listening attentively to everything they said. Perhaps this was the first beginning of understanding the impact of the tale on the audience. Since that time, I have been trying to grasp the secret of storytelling—the secret of speaking while everyone listens.
Does the tale have jinn or angels so that the listener becomes a piece of pleasure flowing with desire and honey with the flow of the story?
In my childhood, I wanted nothing but to follow events as if they were the (artistic) channel through which life flows.
When I (opened the line), I began to learn from the written tale, and I remained immersed in the pleasure of the written, but my oral world and the written one have vast spaces inhabited by emptiness.
The transition from the oral to the written created enormous differences and an impact on the tale in its semantic data and rapid dynamics.
The folk tale has different techniques from the written one. The oral narrative is free and unrestrained, while the written one is a captive being, and the recipient must be aware of the fundamental differences in narrating the event between the two forms.
The oral is attractive to the ear, while the written is attractive to the eye, and the pleasure differs between the two speeds.
In a previous period, literary clubs were active in celebrating the story, and multiple evenings were held, and in every storytelling evening, the differences between the heard and the written appear.
And if those evenings were committed to the written form, the trainee in listening to oral tales becomes frustrated with what is said, because the storyteller is like someone carrying two watermelons in one hand; they want to make you hear their story, but they are entangled in the written form, and success is contingent on the representational ability of the storyteller so that they borrow part of the tools of the oral storyteller.
The most important features of oral narration:
- The continuous repetition of phrases serves as a transition point from one event to another.
- The storyteller integrates all senses during the narration: hand, eye, body movement, voice modulation, and representing the state of the event with exaggeration or submission.
- The listener participates in the storytelling by interjecting, adding, or inquiring.
The pleasure of storytelling differs with time and place during the reading of the written tale, while the folk tale has taken the night as its dwelling; usually, one does not sit to hear the tale except at night.
- The psychology of the folk storyteller affects the narration positively or negatively, as does the psychology of the listeners. Whichever of them harbors distress within, the state of narration slows down as an indicator of the psychological strain of either.
- In the folk tale, events are added or omitted.
- Every storyteller of a folk tale adds and subtracts; this may be one of the most important characteristics of the folk tale, while the written story is rich in other aspects.
- Once the tale is finished being written, it is prevented from deletion or addition, as it is in a state of completion.
- The more advanced the writing style, the harder it is for the reader to have a genuine connection with the event.
- The written story does not give the listener a chance for change and alteration; rather, it grants it a dimension from their imagination.
- The written story tries to mediate between the written and the oral when narrated by the reader, and here a victory for the oral occurs against the written... and we find that the self navigates between the two worlds as it pleases without being bound by the differences between the two processes.
The formulation of written and oral events needs a filter to refine what has fallen here or there, for in both cases, something from the tale has fallen that time cannot restore, even if the (reader or listener) has a vivid imagination, for what the imagination produces is surplus, not from the essence of the tale.
- Can I say that we are incomplete tales?
Therefore, I truly feel the deficiency of the written tale compared to the delightful necessities that accompany the oral tale, which I consider to be part of the tale and not incidental to it or upon it.
Now, with the calls for the death of the poet... criticism... radio... television—has the term death spread to the extent that one might think that those calling for it are (grave diggers), and the saying of the death of the folk narrator becomes (a closing statement).
Now, artificial intelligence has emerged as if it were the monster that came to surpass what preceded it in expressions or tools, and because I do not believe in death in the sense of obliteration, for every death is followed by a life that alters what preceded it, artificial intelligence will divide itself to create a state of reproduction. Among the methods of receiving commands, there are voice commands, and voice is an oral state; sound does not die even if it fades, for its energy continues to oscillate... So let’s reconnect the circle between the oral and the written.


